Ongoing Project to make my Aspy run like new.

[MrShake]

Hey Guys,

I find it really hard to justify taking down a running bike (even if its running badly) long enough to fix it, because that means I'm not riding.. HAHAH

But, I'm determined to feret this guy out.

I've been through the carbs once, had a jet out completely (had a thread about it) and did a carb sync. That improved performance immensely, and she's pretty ride-able once warmed up.

Next thing to tackle is the not-warmed-up performance. As it stands now, when I first start the bike (starts on first push 99% of the time) with choke, its not running well. It will sit there and idle and the idle increases as it gets warm (as expected), but if I try to roll on the throttle at ALL, it immediately bogs down.
Unless I wait for her to warm up completely, I have to lay into the throttle and rev it to 3000+ before I can let off the clutch or it stalls out completely.
So the question is, where would you start?

[judd9571]

I'm just a nob but have you already done basics like:

plugs
air filter
fuel filter

-Matt-

[bs175dths]

You state you had the carburetors out. There are a lot of places which need attention in the carburetors which are easily missed.
I kept notes as I worked on bringing my bike, which sat dormant for two years, back to life.
When I got her, she would not run through the carburetors. Starter fluid through the air box was how she ran in the demo.

Being new to GL’s, I missed many things when I took the carburetors out for a cleaning.
Going back and reading my notes, it took nine times (9 times removing the carburetors!) before I hit all the spots.

Then I found this forum.

Cleaning with gas, lubricating with WD-40, synchronizing and she runs like she should. Starts easy hot or cold, pulls like a freight train, cruises like a Goldwing, yields 44mpg and miles of smiles.
Don’t just spend time in the bowls with the jets, floats and air passages. Look too at the throttle needles, the throttle pistons and their cylinders, the diaphragms and springs. Also look at the reed valves and replace ALL the vacuum lines and o-rings.
Take a peek at the air cut-off valve(s) under the carburetor assembly.

A lot of things to look at, clean, adjust, and lubricate but well worth the effort.

Keep in mind these carburetors work off of a difference of pressure. The throttle needles are not directly connected to the throttle cable. As the air passing through the carburetor increases, the throttle needle/piston is supposed to float up. If there is any resistance when rising, that cylinder will not get the same amount of fuel/air as the rest of the family and the engine will bog down until that resistance is overcome and the throttle needle/piston catches up with the rest of the family.
Bogging down can also come from other sources, lack of fuel, air, ignition timing, vacuum leak, there is a variety.

It can be difficult to take you time, but do, take your time because it will pay with dividends.

Good luck with the bike and let us know if you have any other questions.

-Ride On

[MrShake]

Luckily, this ain't my first rodeo.. haha

I was going to start with the slides first, so we will see where that leads.

I will say, getting carbs off a gl1200 is MUCH more difficult than a gl1000!

[bs175dths]

let me tell you (read the previous entry) after the 4th or 5th time, it gets very easy. :d :d :d :d :d :d

[MrShake]

Ok, I'm going to ressurect my old thread...

Let me set the stage.

This weekend, I gave the bike an oil change, put in brand new spark plugs, a brand new battery, and am motivated to get this fixed.

After new oil, new plugs, and a new battery, I took it for a short ride (5ish miles) and parked it back in the driveway.

I pulled the plugs and ran a compression test, and here is my result:




Compression appears to be just fine! All 4 plugs showed white on the electrode (as you can see in the picture)
Again, these are brand new plugs.

So, on my 5 mile run (and a couple more after that) I noticed the same symptoms, and I'll break them down for you.

Bike starts on the first push of the starter, even without choke on.
Idle is a little erratic (1000-1200 with a few spikes to 1400)
SEVERE off idle stutter
In gear, I have to rev the engine to 3000+ to be able to take off without stalling
Over 3000rpm, the bike runs smoothly
Under 3000rpm, the bike surges and stutters, no matter the gear

Makes it really hard to drive this bike in town, on the highway its fine.
I did a couple of videos, hopefully you can hear the issues:
http://youtu.be/2-eLHZLy17M
http://youtu.be/h88gFUl9JII

So, where would you go next?

[Roleketu]

Just in general on any motor that was acting like that, I would search for vacuum leaks. Including intake manifold o-ring seals and the clamps on the rubber intake tubes. Possibly replace all the vacuum tubing.

[MrShake]

Just in general on any motor that was acting like that, I would search for vacuum leaks. Including intake manifold o-ring seals and the clamps on the rubber intake tubes. Possibly replace all the vacuum tubing.

Do you have any suggestions for testing? I've tried the propane trick, and have seen no increase in RPM when the propane was on.

[dhg]

gl1200a1987, check out the link below on making your own syncing gauge and how to do it. It shows how to
sync an 1100, but the 1200's are pretty much the same except the No. 4 cylinder is the factory set one.

I think I have about $35 into making mine.

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[Granpah]

I think the biggest question I have with the restoration project of the carbs is 'are there inexpensive tools for synching the carbs' or will I need to bring the bike to a dealer to do that? I'm willing to spend money but also don't need a tool that'll be a one time use tool and spend hundreds of dollars on it.

So far as I know,either the $106 Syncpro Carb Tuner [non mercury fluid] manometer, or the $74.00 classical mercury manometer set up is the simplest and yet most accurate for syncing the carbs.

CAUTION: Mercury makes some people nervous. I've worked most of my life with lots mercury in my university chemistry lab with no problems. BUT the main caution is that once a bit of it spills and drops on a floor, mercury breaks up into hundreds of very tiny beads that are very difficult to find them all and clean up a spill. In an enclosed space, spilled mercury slowly vaporizes and can accumulate over time in your central nervous system if you're constantly in contact with the air for months or years.

[bs175dths]

I too have a running 1200A, about 90k on it. But have some issues with it that warrant repair. It's my dad's bike that I now have. He has since passed. I don't want to sell it and thought I'd take it apart and restore it. I was told that a carb rebuild will help bring the bike into this new century because the older bikes don't run so well with the fuel mixture of today, vs what was back in the 80s. I think a carb rebuild is a good start for this bike. At least if I take apart the bike and get down to bare bones, i'll rebuild and restore as I put it back together. I'm not sure on the cost of the restoration and to what extent I want to take it, but certainly want to replace the essentials - hoses, etc. I had done work on an 1100 years ago that I owned, and have done repair work on cars. But this will be my first restoration project and one that I will take my time doing. I don't need the bike for touring because I have my cadillac GL1800 to do that. The '87 1200A restoration project will probably take some time for me to do, on weekends, during the winter, nights... I'm looking forward to it, sharing information here and collecting information from this site to assist.

I think the biggest question I have with the restoration project of the carbs is 'are there inexpensive tools for synching the carbs' or will I need to bring the bike to a dealer to do that? I'm willing to spend money but also don't need a tool that'll be a one time use tool and spend hundreds of dollars on it.

Anyone have any suggestions on tools needed for the jobs would be useful information.

Thank you and good luck on your restoration project!

Hey Guys,

I find it really hard to justify taking down a running bike (even if its running badly) long enough to fix it, because that means I'm not riding..
But, I'm determined to feret this guy out.

I've been through the carbs once, had a jet out completely (had a thread about it) and did a carb sync. That improved performance immensely, and she's pretty ride-able once warmed up.

Next thing to tackle is the not-warmed-up performance. As it stands now, when I first start the bike (starts on first push 99% of the time) with choke, its not running well. It will sit there and idle and the idle increases as it gets warm (as expected), but if I try to roll on the throttle at ALL, it immediately bogs down.
Unless I wait for her to warm up completely, I have to lay into the throttle and rev it to 3000+ before I can let off the clutch or it stalls out completely.
So the question is, where would you start?

The cost of the tool to synch the carbs will be cheaper than taking it to the dealer, AND you will have the tool for the next time. Synching the carbs is one of the basic steps when tuning the bike. If you do the carb cleaning/rebuilding, replace the hoses under the carb assembly at that time. I used safety wire instead of those factory clamps or buying small hose clamps.

[MrShake]

I thought I'd report back.

I did send the carbs off to Stu Oltman (a Randakk approved rebuilder) and had a great experience dealing with him.

I got the carbs back in the bike Sunday, struggled at first to get it started, but once it started, its not struggled since.

That being said, the problem is not completely gone. The bike, sitting in the driveway in neutral still has a little off-idle stumble,
but it does not stall when opening it up like it did before.
I also do not have to rev as high in gear to take off without stalling. As well, the stumble under 3k rpm is noticeably improved.
However, its not 100% solved. I still have to rev before letting off the clutch more than I should have to to go from a dead stop,
and there is still a stumble under 3k rpm, and it even spit a bit over 3k rpm at about 65-70mph. As well, cruising along at 65 or 70, if I drop
down to say, 55, drop into 4th gear and lay on the throttle, it stumbles and doesn't accelerate cleanly. It typically "catches" eventually and pins me against the backrest getting up to 70 again.

I took it for about a 30 minute ride, but haven't pulled the plugs yet to check... hopefully some evening soon, or this weekend (its raining today )

I'm motivated to get this figured out, hopefully you guys have some insight. What to check next?

[wildhorse]

I ran into similar issues with mine after rebuild. Changed to NGK Iridium plugs and run only ethanol free gas and haven't had any more issues.

[bs175dths]

The stumbling or hesitation (some even call it a ‘flat spot’) you describe may be coming from the following situations: (I do not know to what extent the carburetor rebuild took place, so please forgive me if this has already been performed)
1. The off idle stumble might be corrected by adding a ‘shim’ or a washer to the underside of the Jet Needles. Not all bikes have this problem although all could benefit from its use. (courtesy of Don Seitz, GWRRA #109825 on April 15, 1998 at 13:03:24)
“ At Play Co.'s model department, I purchased a bag of 8 each, "Du-Bro," flat P/N #2109, brass, 3mm thick washers, and inspected all the washers. To remove any burrs, I hand-lapped each washer on Crocus Cloth. The diameter of all the
washers were measured with a 0 to 1-inch micrometer to be 0.268", meaning that when seated on the "flat" beneath the Jet Needles and they didn't contact the "cone" inside the Vacuum Piston. This is critical. In addition, I measured the
thickness of all the washers. The thickness of the four washers used were: 0.0233," 0.0226," 0.0235," and 0.02229." (only four are needed, but getting four to closely match may take buying more than four) You might try searching this site for a thread on shimming a carburetor.
2. The vacuum pistons are meeting some resistance as they rise with the increase of engine rpm. These pistons need to ‘float’ up and ‘snap’ shut. I cleaned the vacuum piston walls and the cylinder in which they slide with gasoline. Once clean, I continued to rub with a clean cloth to get a sort of ‘polished’ surface. I haven’t had a problem with them since.
Again, I don’t know what was involved with the rebuild, and I don’t want to step on any toes, but this is what it sounds like to me.

-Ride On